Pirated TV DVD scams: Protect yourself

DVDAvenue.tv: See this page to read more user experiences with DVDAvenue, or report a problem.

DVDDonkey.com: See this page to read more user experiences with DVDDonkey.com, or report a problem.

A reader has a big problem with a recent DVD scam:

I found a site called "DVDAVENUE.TV". They advertised various TV shows on their site and I bought many TV shows at very expensive prices.

When I received them, I started to play the discs and found commercials popping up through the shows and also station identification is shown in the corner. Even a voice comes over the credits at the end advertising what is coming up next on that particular channel.

I contacted the company telling them I was very disappointed and that I wanted a full refund.

They apologized and sent me another complete copy of each program, which of course was exactly the same.

They even admitted that all their shows are copied from TV in an e-mail to me and there is no mention of that on their site. After several e-mails to them, they agreed to refund the complete money of over US$200, including $50 postage, of which I am still waiting for, four weeks later. Even the postage is outrageous considering Amazon.com charged US$6.48 on our last order.

My question to you is, is it legal to copy shows from TV and then sell them on the Internet? If not what do you think I can do about it.

Sounds like a rough situation. After doing a brief search for DVDAvenue.tv problems and complaints, I found pages like this one:

Look under the heading: "Beware of Scam DVDs"

(Note: DVDAvenue.tv is not affiliated with DVDAvenue.com.)

Put briefly, yes, they resell TV show dubs, and several people have said they've had problems with getting their money back. Another frustrated DVDAvenue.tv user tells me:

I do regret I discovered your site too late. DVDAVENUE sent me a bunch of bad copies of my favourite series, full of advertising, uncomplete beginnings and endings, episodes not corresponding to the menu titles, some DVDs could not even be run.

Is it legal to copy TV shows and sell them?

Legally speaking, no, it's illegal. However, there is a huge, not-so-secret following for such things. From trading sites, eBay, and fan clubs, many people happily purchase old TV shows online that are not available any other way. In the case of DVDAvenue.tv, this is what they're doing, and more: I see they have illegal TV dubs of newer shows like "Sex and the City" and "Everybody loves Raymond". These shows aren't even out of syndication yet, and I'm surprised TV studios haven't cracked down on this.

I see they present their videos classier than most, making them appear as if they truly are production studio releases. This is misleading advertising on their part. I started a chat session with a sales rep, and had to ask three times before I got a clear answer of what they sell:

Marie: hello. how may i help you?

Andy: Hello, are your TV shows production studio releases, or dubs from TV?

Marie: there is a manufacturer who produces the dvds, we simply retail them

Andy: Are these shows production studio releases, or dubs from TV?

Marie: as i have said earlier we do not produce the dvd, there is a manufacturer who produces the dvds, we simply retail them

Andy: Understood. I'm trying to find out if what I'm purchasing is a studio release, or a TV dub. I understand your position, but as the reseller, I'm just trying to get important detail on what you're reselling.

Marie: our dvds are copies made from aired episode on tv

Andy: Okay. Thanks for the clarification.

Marie: thanks for visiting

At this point, you've already spent the money on your disks. Yes, DVDAvenue.tv is to blame for false advertising, and sales that are illegal in the United States. However, you do have TV shows, on DVD, which normally would not be available. It's up to you to decide if this is something worth keeping, or worth fighting for a refund.

$50 shipping is... Well, the word would be "insane".

I don't want to cause any trouble, so as long as I receive my full refund, I would be happy to forget the whole incident.

If you want to try for a refund, you are going to have to cause trouble. Assuming you paid by credit card, I would start there. Since DVDAvenue hasn't refunded your money, and you have an email from them promising they would do so, give this information to the credit card company. Tell them you've been the victim of false advertising, and have been scammed out of your money, and are unable to get a response from the seller. The credit card company should compensate you for your losses, and they'll attempt to get the money from the seller. (I'm saying this based on my knowledge of United States credit card companies. Other countries may differ.)

Despite whether or not you agree with copyright law and the legality of copying and reselling TV shows, in this case we have a seller who promised a refund in writing and did not deliver. The moral of the story: If not familiar with the seller, do some basic research first. Find out from others' experiences if this is a trustworthy seller, or one worth avoiding. And, when in doubt, stick with Amazon.

The DVDAvenue.tv website states, "Satisfaction Guarantee: If you are unsatisfied with your purchase (although we have never had this happen), we will happily replace or refund your purchase."

Seems overly optimistic, and, in this case, quite wrong.

Some links that may help here are more on identifying and fighting online fraud, and how to recognize a pirated DVD.

Adam asks for a specific clarification on a couple points:

DVDavenue.tv - Is this company illegal?

Yes. Or, more specifically, what they're doing is illegal: They're breaking US federal copyright law, making money by copying and selling someone else's protected work without permission.

I found this out by going to the homepage of the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA). At the time of this writing, under the section titled "What's legal and what isn't?" we see it written very plainly:

Manufacturing, selling or distributing motion pictures or television programs without the consent of copyright holders is illegal.

Also check out Title 17, section 506 of the US Copyright "Criminal Offenses", where we find a longer description of what constitutes copyright infringement.

They keep telling me they are legal and that the FBI knows about them and that they have even sold to the FBI.

Sounds like a question dodge at best, a lie at worst. Not sure why they're saying that: The FBI doesn't patrol copyright infringement of television shows. That's up to the Motion Picture Association of America and the owners of the TV shows' copyright (generally the creators or TV syndicate).

Is it by any chance just the sellers are breaking the law, or would all their buyers be breaking the law too? It seems as if it's the sellers who are breaking the law does it not? Thanks Andy.

This is where I admit I'm not a copyright lawyer! I don't know enough about copyright law to get you a full answer. What I did find is that selling a copyrighted work when you don't hold the copyright, and what DVDAvenue is doing, is illegal TV show piracy. I would assume, in a world with a powerful, tightly-controlling government, that the buyers would have their purchases taken away, much as if you purchased a car you later found out was stolen, but don't know for sure.

All this is due to the fact that the recording and motion picture industries have either not kept pace with modern technology, or have tried to outlaw the parts that take away their power base. Companies like DVDAvenue are just a symptom. The problem is getting distributors to use modern technology to give consumers their product. Since that also means far lower costs for us, it's harder to justify and they resist. DVDAvenue and similar illegal pirate TV show reseller sites will eventually be targeted by the government, copyright owners and their lawyers, and in the future will fade out. ...Assuming, of course, the recording industries start using technological innovations that make buying media easy and fast

I'm sure people who have used the sites are just people who want shows they love.

I could say the same about movies and books. Why pay for a new book or movie I love when I can buy or download it electronically from an illegal source for a fraction of retail price? (Though in the case of DVDAvenue, the prices aren't even that low.) Just because you like something doesn't give you the right to steal it from the owner. It's not yours.

Do you think that they [sites like DVDAvenue and movie studios and syndicates] may just become partners, and the sites will be legal in the future?

No. But I think the movie and TV studios and syndicates will develop technology that will be able to compete with these types of sites, to the extent the illegal sites won't be profitable any more. It's just too bad it takes troublemakers like DVDAvenue to get companies to give consumers much needed improvements.

Rick adds his experience:

guess I'm one of the many who got scammed by this site..ordered entire 120 episode fugitive series...thought the $18 shipping charge was high but what i got was a badly done homemade version. all but one or 2 of the 30+ discs froze up at some point , some episodes could not be played at all, 2 of the disc were exact same episodes and 2 of the discs werent even of the fugitive, one was "the nanny" and another was "the wonder years".Phoned once but after 10 minutes waiting a recording came on saying they couldnt answer the phone and i should email...6 emails and no response later, here I sit.

See this page to read more user experiences with DVDAvenue, or report a problem.